Matt Barnes And Stephen ‘Stak’ Jackson Need ‘All The Smoke’

It’s late on a Tuesday afternoon in November. I’m in a studio close to New York’s Bryant Park, and former NBA gamers Matt Barnes and Stephen “Stak” Jackson are chopping it up after recording an episode of their new Showtime Sports activities podcast All The Smoke. 

This episode featured famous civil rights activist Shaun King, and it was clear the dialog resonated with Barnes.

They ultimately retreated to the again of the studio to decompress and prep for one more episode. This time with not too long ago retired New York Yankees pitcher and World Sequence champion C.C. Sabathia. 

After recording two episodes sandwiched between a day of press interviews and conferences, the fellows seemed able to unwind. 

“This requires a special form of power,” Barnes advised me. “It’s completely different, man.”

Nobody would ever liken 14 NBA seasons with internet hosting a podcast, however they each require ranges of power. 

For over 30 minutes, Matt and Stak have been candid, hilarious and insightful on subjects starting from the NBA’s participant/fan dynamic, the ever-popular “prime 5” debate and the second they knew they’d be brothers for all times. 

The under transcript highlights from the taped interview have been edited for brevity and readability.

BET: You have been “We Consider Warriors” teammates, what was it concerning the different that made you each understand, “That’s my man”?

Barnes: I checked out his lips and knew he was a smoker. 

Jackson: True. True. 

Barnes: It was at all times enjoying towards him and understanding what sort of competitor he was, after which him coming to our crew. I do know he was going to carry one thing particular. And we did form of take a look at one another and we each knew we had… comparable pursuits in different areas.

Jackson: (grinning sarcastically) Mmm hmmm!

Barnes: It turned an prompt brotherhood. 

Jackson: Simply the vibe. We knew one another from enjoying towards one another. We simply hit it off like brothers, and it has been like that since then. 

Matt and Stak have at all times been outspoken. Since retirement, each have been concerned in NBA evaluation for ESPN and Fox. By no means afraid to criticize present gamers, these two saved that very same power from their enjoying days and would ship biting, sincere commentary. 

BET: The place does that authenticity and realness come from?

Jackson: Born with it. You’re born with it. That’s simply pure. 

Barnes: Our upbringing. You realize, completely different paths, however comparable tales. We’ve at all times been that method and at all times been the way in which we’re and folks that grew up with us and knew us may by no means say, ‘Oh he modified.’ We’ve at all times caught to our script our complete lives and our method all through. And our journey and our paths, and I believe that’s why we’re right here now. 

BET: Do you suppose there’s a correlation between the way you performed within the league and your upbringing?

Jackson: We at all times had one thing to show, particularly within the sport of basketball. That’s what our complete “We Consider” crew was. Having one thing to show, and that’s why we had success. Nothing’s been given to us, we needed to present that we deserve a number of issues… 

Barnes: (interrupts) Or take it. 

Jackson: The place we come from you’re born with that perspective, as quickly as you come out the womb and see your environment, and that’s simply what it’s. 

BET: If you’re trying on the media panorama, do you suppose that it’s troublesome for former athletes to talk freely about present gamers? 

Jackson: It doesn’t sound like hating. We’re coming from a spot the place we love the sport, and half the time we are saying one thing about gamers, they sitting there listening like, ‘Yeah, they’re proper,’ as a result of it’s coming from an sincere place and never a spot of hate. 

Barnes: We’ve an appreciation for what it’s prefer to be in these gamers’ sneakers as a result of we have been as soon as these gamers. I believe there’s a method you may be vital of a participant if it has to have a detrimental tone with out disrespecting them. 

BET: Do gamers ever hit you up and say, ‘Yeah, Stak. You have been proper about that’?

Jackson: They’ll. I bear in mind after I mentioned one thing about KD and the burner accounts on social media, and he reached out to me. However he understood it wasn’t a spot of hate. When he heard my aspect of it with out studying it on social media, he understood. As a result of I used to be coming at it like a giant brother. Matt feels the identical method. ‘You KD! You may say no matter you wish to anyone you need. You one of the best participant on the planet.’ He ought to really feel like that, and he understood that’s the place I used to be coming from. 

BET: Is it completely different now for gamers due to social media?

Barnes: This social media period is giving us a extra in-depth have a look at our favourite individuals, and it is all elements, from music to films to tv to sports activities. I believe it has been considerably of a distraction at instances, but additionally an enormous profit. Now you’ve gotten the prospect to inform your individual story and form your individual narrative. So if the media is making an attempt to play you a sure method, athletes have their very own platforms to say, ‘No, that is probably not the way it went, that is the way it went.’ I believe that’s nice. 

BET: Do you suppose the media usually will get it flawed with athletes?

Jackson: Those that’s in search of clickbait? Yeah. It’s a number of them which can be simply in search of clickbait and never making an attempt to coach their viewers. You realize what I imply? It’s a giant distinction. Those that’s making an attempt to coach their viewers are properly revered, and I don’t suppose guys have a look at them a sure method. 

Take Doris Burke [ESPN] for instance. Doris goes to shoot it to you straight, however I’ve by no means heard Doris come out with a narrative assuming one thing due to a relationship she has with someone. It’s at all times been details. You realize what I’m saying? Those like that get respect. Nevertheless it’s only a few. Only a few. 

Barnes: I believe so, too. [Jackson] and I each had reputations that preceded us, however the media thought they knew the individual. The competitor and the individual are two various things, you realize? We respect the individuals who take the time to get to know us and discover out who we’re. And everybody else who doesn’t, we actually don’t give a s**t. However when you’re painted a sure method within the eyes of the media, they suppose that’s who you’re as an individual. 

Jackson: And that’s why we glad we’re on this area now, as a result of we will management our personal narrative. 

Barnes: And assist different athletes management their narrative as properly. 

BET: Are skilled athletes afforded the identical humanity as on a regular basis individuals?

Barnes: They suppose that as a result of we’re athletes that we’re superhuman, or nothing bothers us, or we don’t have emotions, or we don’t have households, or we don’t undergo the identical shit everybody else goes by. You realize, since you receives a commission a sure amount of cash, that you simply’re at all times presupposed to be superhuman, and it’s unlucky and it’s laborious typically. As a result of we actually undergo all the identical ups and downs that life throws at us, however we have now to carry out. 

BET: How troublesome is it to come back to work and carry out once you’re coping with these ups and downs life throws your method?

Jackson: It ain’t straightforward.

Barnes: It’s powerful to remain targeted and have the ability to separate life from our job. We’re paid to carry out, and we’re performers. You gotta have good brothers to lean on. You realize my state of affairs with Jack, after I misplaced my mother, and we have been teammates on the Warriors. He was at my home daily kickin it with me, speaking to me, smoking, making an attempt to get me by it, and it actually helped. You realize what I imply? The surface fan doesn’t understand what it takes day-in day-out to mentally be ready to carry out. 

Barnes stops and turns in the direction of the again of the room. “Who’s speaking so f*****g loud?” he jokingly asks. 

Barnes and Stak share fun as they understand it’s one of many producers of their podcast. “He’s at all times loud,” Stak says. “At all times,” Barnes replies. 

BET: What’s it you wish to obtain with the podcast and the content material you create?

Jackson: It’s a present that Showtime is producing that’s altering the sport. One-on-one, it’s by no means been accomplished earlier than. Uncensored, uncooked from two NBA champions. Individuals know we don’t have an agenda. We’re for the individuals, and something that’s for the folks that we have to deal with that’s for the tradition. It’s a straight shot. No politically right solutions, nothing sugarcoated. We’re providing you with uncooked sport. That’s what the individuals need. Actual life barbershop discuss on Showtime.

Barnes: And he’s hoping it launches his rap profession…

Jackson: Nah, I’m appearing now. He’s behind the digicam, I’m in entrance of the digicam. 

BET: You bought some stuff you engaged on?

Barnes: Yeah, I’m doing a little stuff behind the digicam. Producing and directing. I really feel like my face has been on TV sufficient in my lifetime that individuals don’t must see me like that anymore. So I’ve taken the time to be extra of a creator. However Jack can’t get sufficient…

Jackson: (interrupts) I’m a pure. 

Barnes: Display time. He gotta have his face all on the TV. 

Jackson: I’m a pure. (He motions to the cameraman for a close-up.)

BET: Critics say gamers can’t work on their sport and construct their model on the identical time. Why is that an issue for some individuals?

Jackson: I’m nonetheless enjoying. I nonetheless play within the BIG3. Who’re these individuals to place somebody in a field? A rapper can act. Why can’t a basketball participant do different issues? They wish to put us in a field as a result of we make a lot cash off our preliminary reward…

Barnes: They should not have the ability to generate income off extra?

Jackson: Precisely. Who’s to say that? If I’m gifted, let me discover all my abilities and I believe everybody ought to have that proper. 

Barnes: I believe it’s unlucky as a result of I believe LeBron in all probability will get hit the toughest with it. Now enjoying for the Lakers and all of the off the court docket stuff he’s doing in films and producing and govt producing. If he has a foul sport it’s ‘Oh, he’s doing this and an excessive amount of of that.’ That s**t is ridiculous. To me, it’s a as soon as in a lifetime alternative to do and have the platform we have now, and also you gotta capitalize on each a part of it. So long as you retain your foremost job first, which 99% of those athletes do, I see nothing flawed with capitalizing in different areas. 

BET: What are your ideas on how the league is dealing with the way in which followers and gamers work together?

Jackson: I want they might’ve accomplished it in ‘05.

BET: Is there a particular incident you’re speaking about?

Jackson: Yeah, I want they might’ve accomplished that in ‘05 for “The Malice within the Palace.” Each time we discuss this, I’m going again and look. No person seems to be at how badly we have been handled throughout that point. Once I bought as much as the stands with Ron [Artest] earlier than I hit a man. This man threw one other beer in Ron’s face. I’m glad the league is placing extra [onus] on the followers now. Even with the Warriors, and that’s my household, it was an proprietor that pushed Kyle Lowry [during the 2019 NBA Finals]. That’s method too far. If Kyle pushed him, he’s suspended and so they lose the Finals. I’m glad they perceive it’s not simply us. We’re at work. 9 out of 10 instances if an incident occurs with a fan, the fan initiated it. 

Barnes: I’m all for a fantastic fan setting to cheer us if we’re house and boo us if we’re the opposing crew. However some followers are over the road with the stuff they are saying, the stuff they do. They’ve to know that we’re nonetheless human. Simply since you purchase the ticket doesn’t imply you’ll be able to say racial slurs like they have been doing in Utah or discuss our households and do all this loopy stuff. I believe it’s vital to have an understanding, like Jack mentioned, if there’s an altercation between gamers and followers, I’d say even ten out of ten instances a fan began it, as a result of a participant isn’t simply going to start out s**t. We’ve way more vital issues to do throughout a sport. 

I couldn’t let two of one of the best defenders of their period depart with out asking the all-important High-5 query. 

BET: Who’s in your High 5 All-Time NBA?

Jackson: Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Shaquille O’Neal and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. 

Barnes: Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Shaquille O’Neal and Magic Johnson. 

For the file, my High 5 all-time are: Michael Jordan, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, LeBron James, Magic Johnson and Wilt Chamberlain.

Affordable minds can disagree. 

Speaking to those two NBA legends, the vibe I bought was uncooked, uncut and unfiltered.

Matt Barnes and Stephen Jackson are right here for ALL. THE. SMOKE. 

For the total uncensored video interview with Matt Barnes and Stephen Jackson, see under.